Ned Block on Disjunctivism
10 March 2009 at 1:58pm 9 comments
In the last few days I had the good fortune to attend a couple of talks here at Warwick by Ned Block. In the first of these, which I discuss below, Block set about attacking the disjunctivist conception of experience put forward by (amongst others) Mike Martin, Alva Noë and Susan Hurley. On this object-involving view of experience, not only semantic content but also the phenomenal character of experience itself is said to be externally individuated—a view which Block has argued against elsewhere, and which is defended by Michael Tye. This goes beyond the widely accepted arguments put forward by Putnam, Burge, et al., and results in a view upon which the felt qualities of experience are partly (although not necessarily wholly) constituted by external objects.
Block confessed from the outset that he was relatively ignorant of the literature on disjunctivism, which is admittedly sprawling and difficult to interpret. For those who have not come across the term, disjunctivism is, to put it crudely, the view that experience or mental state types should not be individuated on the basis of their phenomenal character—i.e. ‘what it’s like’ for the subject—but also on the basis of external properties, such as their epistemic status. Thus, a veridical perceptual episode and a hallucination would be taken to be two different types of experience whose only common factor is that they are phenomenally indistinguishable from one another, and where this need not be taken to indicate any other common factor at the level of the mental.
In general, Block’s strategy was to argue from the existence of cases in which we have empirical evidence for the internal individuation of mental states to the implausibility of external individuation in general. In particular, he wished to attack a particular claim by Martin to the effect that the relevant externally individuated states (e.g. perception and hallucination) have ‘no positive mental characteristics in common’ apart from the fact that they are phenomenologically indistinguishable (something that all sides accept is possible in theory, if not necessarily in practice). Block took this to mean that the disjunctivist is committed to denying that, for example, a seen rose can be exactly the same shade of red as an imagined post box on the basis that ‘being the same shade of red’ is a positive mental characteristic. However, as was pointed out in questions afterwards, it is not clear that this is at all inconsistent with Martin’s claim. Indeed, one might think that such such equivalences are entailed by precisely the notion of phenomenological indistinguishability that the disjunctivist posits, and so do not constitute any additional mental characteristics over and above this notion. Conversely, if this is not what disjunctivism entails, then it is trivially false, not to mention inconsistent, and so this cannot be the correct reading of Martin’s claim.
A further difficulty with Block’s approach was that he took the idea that experience types are individuated by anything other than their subjective phenomenal character (i.e. ‘what it’s like’) to be manifestly false. The problem is—and this was news to him—that this is precisely what the disjunctivist is claiming, and so cannot be taken as a problem for the view per se. If there is something inherently problematic about this notion, then Block failed to show what it was, despite a fascinating discussion of several interesting case studies within the neuroscientific literature.
Furthermore, it was unclear (to me at least) why such examples should constitute a counterexample to disjunctivism. Block’s argument seemed to be that the physical states that differentiate one phenomenal character from another lie in the core regions of the brain, and not in the retina or early visual system. By extension, this means that they cannot lie in external objects, and so (Block claims) phenomenal consciousness must be purely internal. However, this argument says nothing about how experience types or mental states should be individuated or how they are realised in phenomenologically indistinguishable but functionally distinct states; e.g. dreaming. Even if such states did turn out to have a common physical basis, however, this does not appear to be inconsistent with the disjunctivist claim that they have nothing in common (with the exception of phenomenological indistinguishability) at the level of the mental. Consequently, seeing an apple and dreaming that you see one do not necessarily constitute the same mental state.
Another argument against externalism about phenomenal consciousness that was not fully spelled out, and in my view was weaker than the above, traded on the idea that we are able to ‘mesh’ visual and imaginary experiences with relative ease. In the case of two grid of dots being projected onto a screen in succession, for example, subjects are able to locate the missing dot—i.e. the one that didn’t appear in either presentation—despite the fact that one image is perceived and the other only remembered or imagined (although it is not clear that the sort of memory involved is not itself perceptual in nature). However, this only shows that such experiences have a common content—something that both sides admit—and not that they are necessarily of the same type, or are comprised of the same mental state.
Putting the above worries—which in my view are fatal to Block’s argument—to one side, it was still an extremely enjoyable and interesting talk. There was even a nice demonstration of the phenomenon of binocular rivalry in which different images are presented to the left and right eyes, causing a kind of visual flip-flopping effect, for which pairs of 3D glasses were distributed. Indeed, the spectacle (excuse the pun) of Warwick’s finest philosophers peering at a screen whilst wearing 3D glasses was worth going to the talk for in its own right. At one point Block described Warwick as a “hotbed of disjunctivism”, which caused a few chuckles, although is perhaps something of an overstatement given that relatively few of the Warwick faculty ‘self-identify’—since when did this phrase become part of the philosphical lexicon?—as disjunctivists.
In general, however, I remained unconvinced by the evidence that Block presented, most of which seemed (so far as I could tell) to cut against his own interpretation of the disjunctivist’s position, rather than disjunctivism proper. Indeed, as Block at one point came close to admitting, once these misunderstandings are cleared up then the central thesis of disjunctivism doesn’t seem that contentious after all, and in fact turns out to be rather uninteresting from a scientific point of view due to its lack of distinctive empirical claims. It is, after all, a philosophical thesis, rather than an empirical one. The broader philosophical—and in particular epistemological—benefits of the theory, however, remain a matter of intense debate—not least because the precise commitments of the view itself are often poorly articulated and/or understood.
Entry filed under: Mind. Tags: Block, Burge, Consciousness, Disjunctivism, Externalism, Hurley, Martin, Mental states, Mind, Noë, Perception, Phenomenal character, Putnam, Tye, Warwick.
1. Tom | 14 March 2009 at 2:51pm
What problems in epistemology is disjunctivism actually supposed to solve for us? Just saying that seeing that p and hallucinating that p aren’t the same thing doesn’t seem to get very far.
2. Keith | 14 March 2009 at 5:10pm
As I understand it, this enables a kind of externalism about mental states and/or experiences, which are world- and object-involving, rather than being merely causally or semantically related to the external world. Some philosophers (principally McDowell) claim that this has epistemological benefits, others see it as primarily a thesis in the philosophy of mind.
In any case, the central idea seems to be that experiential states involve some kind of direct acquaintance with external objects. Naïve realism and the relational view of experience are variants upon this theme.
3. Tom | 15 March 2009 at 3:50pm
I suppose that I just don’t see what the epistemological benefits could be. The disjunctivist can say that if I’m seeing an apple then I can’t be in a sceptical scenario vis-à-vis the apple But am I seeing it or just seeming to see it? That latter possibility can be ruled out based on my experiences, which will be qualitatively identical in either case.
Is there a quick way to sum up how McDowell avoids that sort of worry, or to explain why the worry itself is off target?
As you know I’m a committed externalist, so I’d like to think that it solves as many deep problems as possible but I don’t see it in this case.
4. Keith | 15 March 2009 at 5:41pm
The worry is very much on target and echoes Crispin Wright’s line that scepticism is always a second-order (or higher) problem.
As I understand it, McDowell runs a transcendental argument to show that the sceptic’s account cannot make sense of our everyday speech and practice, whereas the disjunctivist model shows how knowledge (first-, second- and higher-order) is possible, and therefore better explains what we mean by knowledge. This is not supposed to refute the sceptic (nothing can do that), but to put the worry back in proportion as a merely theoretical possibility, rather than something that threatens to undermine our whole grasp upon reality.
It’s very controversial and many disjunctivists don’t subscribe to it, but that’s the basic line he takes. (I wrote more about this in an essay a while back, which you can find here if you’re interested.)
5. Stephen Harris | 22 July 2009 at 1:01am
I’m also new to Disjunctivism (but I’ve started reading Contemporary Readings) and was attracted to this topic by the mention of Ned Block. He has written several AI philosophical papers and AI of course sprawls into philosophy of Mind. So AI covers “What is it like to be a bat?” and “derived intentionality”. Also Functionalism: Strong AI employs the idea that many different functions or methods can produce the same result, and that it is the result which matters and the source of the function, often called the “black box” is not a relevant consideration. This of course is disputed. There are different versions of Disjunctivism and I think Martin’s position that there isn’t a common core between visual experience with related rational associations and hallucinations which is the black box doesn’t matter position. Gupta introduces the idea that the prior history of perception and experience is relevant to discriminating the current status of a percept, real and rational or a hallucination and delusional. I think this is a ‘the black box matters’ position and relates to the criticism of this portion of the primary post,
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“Block’s argument seemed to be that the physical states that differentiate one phenomenal character from another lie in the core regions of the brain, and not in the retina or early visual system. By extension, this means that they cannot lie in external objects, and so (Block claims) phenomenal consciousness must be purely internal.”
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One issue is that I think the eye receives something like 2 million bits per second of information and this is filtered down to about 2 thousand bits of information for conscious perusal.
The core regions of the brain which process the information may well be pre-conditioned and predisposed to viusal/rational associations and thus form a common core. Now if the hallucination is produced from one of the perhaps fragmentary recombinations (juxtaposed) of the existing core experience comprised of visual perception and rational association, then there will be a trace of that common core organization in the hallucinatory structure. It seems to me that only if there is a possibility of a hallucinatory image generated completely outside and beyond the range of recombination, analogous to a genetic mutation, so that there is no longer a possibility of a pre-existing rational association to this unique image, can the idea of ‘no common core’ obtain credibility. I don’t know if this can be physically distinguished or determined or predicted.
6. Stephen Harris | 22 July 2009 at 10:38am
I notice now that my view is called Experiential Naturalism.
7. Keith | 25 July 2009 at 6:16pm
As I mentioned in reply to your other post, Martin’s no common factor claim is about the mental or rational core of an experience, rather than what they might physically have in common. This is something that Block himself doesn’t seem to understand, and doesn’t commit Martin to denying that veridical perceptions and hallucinations may have a lot in common when you look at what’s going on inside the brain—indeed, he admits as much in several places.
What the debate is about is whether this common core is what constitutes or individuates the experience. Disjunctivists claim that two experiences with the same common core can nevertheless be different types of experience, individuated at least in part by what’s going on outside the brain. Block, on the other hand, doesn’t seem to find this intelligible and insists that if two experiences are subjectively indistinguishable to the subject then they are, by definition, the same type of experience. The claim is therefore a philosophical one, rather than something that can be determined by empirical investigation as Block seems to think.
Your use of the word ‘rational’ seems to suggest a non-disjunctivist view in that you talk about regions of the brain making ‘visual/rational associations’. For a disjunctivist, this kind of claim may be seen as question begging because they think that what makes something rational, in the sense of epistemically justified, is not purely internal to the brain. An association between some (apparently) visual stimuli and a judgement can be rational in one case (i.e. when the world really is as it appears to the subject) and irrational in another (e.g. a hallucination). Thus, what determines rationality is not some ‘common core’ in the brain, but how the world is, and so these are not really the same type of experience.
8. Stephen Harris | 29 July 2009 at 12:47am
Keith wrote: “An association between some (apparently) visual stimuli and a judgement can be rational in one case (i.e. when the world really is as it appears to the subject) and irrational in another (e.g. a hallucination). Thus, what determines rationality is not some ‘common core’ in the brain, but how the world is, and so these are not really the same type of experience.”
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There is a sense in which nothing is objective. We built language by seeing a dog or a tree and mutually agreeing that we saw the same thing and that the external object persisted, so that we could give words a shared name and meaning.
Reality is just what it is and and makes no judgments. So in one sense the “world as it is” is never determined by rationality. I think what you mean is whether a particular individual sees the same rational reality as the huge majority of healthy minds see in the same external context. But that doesn’t mean external reality determines rationality because the world as it is remains constant no matter how it is perceived.
An individual having hallucinations isn’t seeing the same underlying reality as other healthy perceivers, but reality is not determining that, the brains involved determine whether the normal shared reality is perceived, or if there is an aberration.
Hallucinations do not actually insert entities into external reality, hallucinations are all in the mind’s eye.
This is not a philosophical issue except for some philosophy which claims that the mind creates reality. We see the same thing because we share the same evolution which constructed the pattern of our brains. The circuitry for perception is largely the same (but not identical). The circuitry for interpretation is largely the same, sufficient for the communication required by language and enable by what could be called the common core of the collective, subjective, shared evaluations of a faithful underlying reality. I would agree that this is what creates the standard of what is rational that is applied to evaluate the rationality of individual outliers.
But whether an individual meets this standard and is therefore rational, is determined by being born with a healthy brain (for instance there is atrophy associated with autism) and a brain which doesn’t become injured or become disturbed by chemical imbalances/influences upon the brain which distort reality.
Many visual perceptions are stored in V1. They are associated with memory and relevant to making rational predictions through synapses which we all have. That is a common core. I suppose one could call rational thinking a more abstract layer. It seems to me to disprove a physical common core wherein rationality is an isolated physical substrate is possible by experiment.
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Keith wrote: “Your use of the word ‘rational’ seems to suggest a non-disjunctivist view in that you talk about regions of the brain making ‘visual/rational associations’. For a disjunctivist, this kind of claim may be seen as question begging because they think that what makes something rational, in the sense of epistemically justified, is not purely internal to the brain.”
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I’m a Physicalist. The Scientific Method has no opinion about the existence of supernatural events although many scientists do. If not dualism, does disjunctivism suggest that reality does not have an independent existence regardless of whether it is perceived? A physicalist doesn’t deny that thinking, including rational thinking requires interaction with reality in order to learn the nature of the world, causality, etc. Nor deny that reality existed before humans and their rationality appeared.
There are illusions as well hallucinations though I see they are often treated as the same. Everybody has a unique history of learning from the world and also has unique associations besides brains even in identical twins don’t develop identically.
So one could be hiking on a trail and see a shadow and think mabye a predator is lurking. Everybody has a different field of reminders that reality can generate and it is outside of rationality whether or not whether we all give the same interpretations to the same shadows cast on a trail. It doesn’t seem irrational either. I don’t see what scientific question is being begged. What type of reality is it that is epistemically justified as “not purely internal to the brain”. I don’t mean that reality is not objective but that our opinion of reality is subjective; there is no mind over matter so that our thoughts of reality, rational or not, interact so as to shape reality into our sharing some notion of cooperating with shaping common reality.
Everybody seems to have a different idea of what disjunctivism means and that is a sign of an incoherent notion, rather than a commonly shared rational notion. When it comes to begging the question, the burden of proof is on the extraordinary claim (not commonly shared). Where does Plato’s shadows of reality cast on the cave wall (which doesn’t contradict Physicalism) fit into the disjunctivist jigsaw.
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Keith wrote: “Disjunctivists claim that two experiences with the same common core can nevertheless be different types of experience, individuated at least in part by what’s going on outside the brain.” ——————————-
Well, the shadow on the trail could be a predator or just look like a predator. The plants on the savanna could be moving due to a breeze, or due to a lion stalking through them. Which case
is true becomes a matter of identification which I suppose comes under knowledge. If you take a 10 second movie of the motion of the grass and show it to somebody else they also won’t be able to tell what the true nature of the experience is, grass blowing or lion walking. There isn’t a basis for a rational determination at that time, it can be determined later in the time of the prolonged experience. I don’t think rationality applies to these types of situation. To make an error in judging prematurely what event (wind or walking) has transpired would seem to be irrational. There are other situations where the cause of some perception is immediately identifiable and
if done correctly is rational and irrational if done incorrectly.
Still, the world as it is doesn’t make epistemic conclusions, it’s not an inherent part of external reality; epistemic conclusions
are abstract, symbolic brain/mind generated concepts. If the concept is right or wrong, external reality doesn’t alter to conform to a false impression. The individual’s responsive behavior changes to its perception to a non-adapting reality and that response originates in the brain/mind, which may be rational or not. That is not altered by recognizing that our lives unfold in a constant interaction between mind and environment and our control/knowledge of the environment is constrained.
9. Stephen Harris | 29 July 2009 at 4:38am
From the Wiki: “Further, they claim that in a hallucination there is no external object to be related to,”…
I certainly agree with that if it means no external hallucination at the time the external object is related to. But, I think the hallucination is still generated by stored images of external reality acquired at earlier lucid times. They can be grafted and juxtaposed but not outside the recombinations of the memory of once perceived external objects; these may not correspond to any real object, but that the hallucination uses at its source, perceived objects once part of external reality, and that is what veridicial perceptions and hallucinations have in common, so that there can be some validity to dream interpretation.